It’s not often that I come across clear evidence of fragrance dilution and reformulation within so short a period of time as a mere two years, but it happened this week. Two bottles of Parfum MDCI‘s Chypre Palatin, purchased roughly two years apart, are unquestionably different in both their visuals and their scent.
Colour differences. Newly purchased bottle on the left in dark yellow, old 2015 bottle on the right with dark orange juice. Photo: my own.
The source for this unfortunate discovery is my mother, whom I bring up occasionally on the site because she’s a die-hard perfumista who set the foundation for my love of scent and with whom I frequently share my fragrance finds. She’s generally unenthused by the vast majority of modern fragrances but Chypre Palatin is a major exception. She loves it passionately, and rather took me aback the other day by saying that she might even love it more than vintage Shalimar which she collects in its oldest vintage extrait form and that it may even be her favourite fragrance ever. My mother was running dangerously low on Chypre Palatin, at least by her standards, and wanted another bottle. It would be her third since 2014. Her last one was purchased sometime around May or June 2015, possibly July, so just a little over two years ago.
I was concerned about the possibility of reformulation. Last year, I’d heard one or two people mention in passing that they thought Chypre Palatin was weaker and may have been reformulated. There wasn’t widespread talk of reformulation, but the possibility was one to consider for a few reasons. First, it would fit the time frame: the fragrance was originally released in 2012 and we were now in 2017; in my experience, most companies dilute or reformulate their fragrance after 5 years. Second, I knew several other MDCI fragrances had already been reformulated. In 2014 or 2015, I obtained a sample of Invasion Barbare (2005) from Osswald NYC which smelled quite different to one that I had purchased on eBay several years before and that, if I recall correctly, the seller had said was from an older bottle. (2008, I think?) In the newer Osswald sample, the white musk had been amped up to an unpalatable degree, while the core elements had been weakened. I wasn’t a fan, and that’s the main reason why I’ve never written about it. (The same issues are why I’ve never written about Ambre Topkapi, originally released in 2003, and some of the florals or fruity-florals in MDCI’s line; they’ve been reformulated in a way that makes them feel quite average or uninspiring to me.)
I spoke to Franco of Luckyscent about the age of his Chypre Palatin stock in the hope that I could obtain an older bottle and thereby minimize the risk of reformulation. He said his bottles were ordered last year. So, 2016. He also said that people didn’t buy Chypre Palatin with the frequency that they did Invasion Barbare, an extremely popular fougère, so MDCI didn’t produce it as frequently. Those facts combined with the timing — we are just hitting the 5 year mark since the fragrance’s debut — led me to hope that it would smell just as it always did.
No such luck. In my opinion, it’s completely changed. The colour of the juice was the very first sign because it’s glaringly different:
Clear colour difference between old (left) and new (right) bottles of Chypre Palatin. Photo: my own.
Even in the shade and in poor lighting, the colour difference is evident. Photo: my own.
Chypre Palatin base labels, both the same. Photo: my own.
Label from the new bottle. “H 2102” is the perfume code, not a batch code. Photo: my own.
The colour of the liquid in my mother’s bottle is not an anomaly because my Chypre Palatin is the same. In 2014, I purchased one of MDCI’s sample sets, 6 x 10 ml bottles, and requested that all the fragrances be the same, Chypre Palatin. I then decanted 5 of them into an atomiser spray. As you can see in the photo below, it is orange-red as well:
2015 and 2014 Chypre Palatin on one side, the new bottle on the other. Photo: my own.
Colour is the first clue, but scent is the second and main one. I could tell something was different merely from sniffing the atomizer. The new version is lighter, more aromatic, much sweeter, more vanillic, and with more white musk but significantly less of the salty, plush, emerald oakmoss and the darker, richer notes in the base, like the leather and resins.
When applied on skin, the base and core dilution seemed even more obvious to my nose, particularly the oakmoss. That oakmoss is actually what made the original Chypre Palatin stand out and become such a family favourite. Bernard Duchaufour used an expensive extraction technique to remove the one oakmoss molecule which made the material problematic for IFRA/EU regulators and which led to their stringent restrictions on oakmoss in perfumery. Without that offending molecule, perfumes could have as much oakmoss as they wanted. Which is what Chypre Palatin once had. Huge amounts of real oakmoss which created not just a vintage vibe but also a certain grandeur missing from most modern chypres.
That depth of body, opulence, and mossy excess have now disappeared, both in my opinion and that of my mother. In addition, the citrus opening is now sharp, the lavender is suddenly extremely prominent, and, for the first time, there is both a strong ISO E-like aroma in the opening as well as a subtle underlying synthetic scratchiness that I’d never encountered with Chypre Palatin before. The new version gave me a migraine when I sniffed my arm up close for too long.
On top of all that, the new Chypre Palatin also feels weaker in its body and sillage. My mother would waft a room-filling cloud with just two sprays. The new version still emits a cloud, but it’s smaller, lighter, airier, less resinous in feel, and not particularly green.
MAAI. Photo: Roberto Greco.
To me, Chypre Palatin is now simply okay and, sadly, quite average in character rather than being a head-turning deluge of grandness. It feels particularly average when compared to some recent fragrances over the last two or three years which have recreated vintage levels of mossy excess through other means. For example, Bogue’s MAAI and Aeon’s 001 (both created by Bogue’s Antonio Gardoni) which manipulate vetiver and tuberose to recreate the verdant lushness and greenness which we associate with vintage-era oakmoss, or Areej Le Doré‘s now sold-out Siberian Musk which managed the same feat through vetiver and galbanum. All three of those fragrances pair their oakmoss with a strong, deep core of dark resins, leatheriness, amber, and musky sensuality. In the new Chypre Palatin, those elements are now a shadow of what they once were, just like the oakmoss.
My mother is absolutely gutted. If Chypre Palatin was one of your favourites, you may be, too.
[UPDATE 8/24: The owner of Parfums MDCI has responded in the comments and vehemently denies any change in the fragrance. He states:
How to say this?
How to fight a nasty , destructive rumor?Chypre Palatin has never, ever been modified, changed, altered, diluted.
along the years, colour may have varied, so much so that we do not use chemicals such as UV filters.lColour will change with time, depending on storage , and the high content of natural ingredients in the formula is also a factor.
But NO, rest assured that the formula has not been changed…
:o)
Claude
Parfums MDCI
I stand by my opinion. Three people tried the fragrance in the new bottle and they all thought it smelled different than it once did. I did side-by-side tests of the new bottle as compared to the two older ones, and the scent was weaker, sweeter, less oakmossy, less resinous, and with the other issues that I noted above. The company has changed a number of its fragrances, in both my opinion and that of the manager of one of MDCI’s retailers. Yet, the company insists here that this one has remained exactly the same. My opinion is that it is not the same.]
[UPDATE #2 8/24: The owner of MDCI, Claude Marchal, has replied again in the comments below and has requested that his comments be added here. He writes:
How come before writing such an incriminating and dammaging article, and posting it on the web, the author did not even take the pain to ask what could explain the changes in colour in “Chypre Palatin”?
Why draw such conclusions and create such reactions in the public?
Does having “subjective and personal” views mean it is OK to write anything and not bother with the consequences?
Changing a formula is not something we take lightly, and to illustrate this, I have refused to bring back to life one of our favorite fragrances, “Enlèvement au Sérail”, because the attempts to reformulate it were not satisfactory, and still are n’t. Rather lose clients and $$$ than a reputation built bottle after bottle, year after year.
As for “Chypre Palatin”, the formula has never, ever been modified, nor has the concentration. The juice has been in the past coloured, but it is no longer the case, we prefer to leave the juice as free as possible of unnecessary ingredients, such as UV filters.
Herebelow is the confirmation by Art et Parfum, the lab that produces for us: I would really appreciate if it could be posted in on your Blog, as well as my reply. It is in French, but enough readers will understand it as is.
Thank you,
Claude
Claude Marchal
Parfums MDCI
Bonjour Claude
Pour faire suite à notre échange sur le Chypre Palatin, les deux dernières fabrications datent de 2015 et 2016, nous sommes en 2017.
D’un point de vue analytique et chromatographique, les deux productions sont totalement identiques .
D’un point de vue olfactif, nous constatons un écart naturel dû à une année de macération en plus, phénomène qui doit être accentué dans l’alcool, notre analyse ne portant que sur les concentrés en pur et les solutions alcooliques faites ce jour.
D’un point de vue de la coloration, ce parfum contient beaucoup de matières naturelles, ce qui en fait sa richesse, telles que du patchouli, benjoin , santal , lavande, jasmin , rose , girofle, pour ne citer que celles-ci, mais aussi plus de 10 % de notes hespéridé, mandarine, clémentine, citron ….
Ces matières premières issues d’agrumes sont colorées à l’origine et se décolorent dans le temps pour devenir transparentes en vieillissant.
Certaines sociétés essayent de stabiliser la couleur avec des complexes de filtres UV type covabsorb.
Vous avez pris le parti sur ce parfum de ne pas ajouter d’additif cosmétique.
Aux vues des matières premières présentes dans ce parfum, les agrumes se décolorant, il est donc normal qu’il devienne plus clair dans le temps.
Sur d’autres parfums la couleur peut au contraire foncer à cause de la vanilline, de l’indol ou autres matières premières.Ce que je peux vous garantir c’est que cette formule est conforme par les constituants à la formule d’origine de Monsieur Duchaufour et que nous n’avons effectué aucun changement pour quelque raison que ce soit.
De plus, lorsqu’un de nos parfumeurs effectue une modification à partir d’un concentré existant et vendu, que ce soit pour des raisons réglementaires ou tarifaires, cela pouvant engendrer, ou non, une modification olfactive, le client final et metteur sur le marché en est systématiquement informé, une nouvelle référence est créée, et doit être validée par lui avant toute production.
Je reste à votre disposition pour toutes informations complémentaires,
Sincères salutations
Olivier MAURE
1650 Route de Saint Vallier
06530 SPERACEDES
Phone +33 493 605 252
o.maure@accordsetparfums.fr
http://www.artdecomposerleparfum.com
I can only repeat what I’ve said. The fragrance smells different in my opinion and that of others who have tried the new bottle. Colour alone isn’t the issue. The fragrance smells different in our opinion. One of the people with this opinion has worn Chypre Palatin every week for three years and through two prior bottles. This third one smells different. On her, on me, and in comparison to the older bottles. The company insists there has been no change. We shall have to leave it at that, although if Monsieur Marchal wishes for me to add further statements from him, I shall do so.]
Oh no!
The juice in my bottle is dark orange. At least I still have that. I will try to compare it with the new version if I get a chance.
I could never warmed up to Invasion Barbare for some reason. Maybe it’s the white musk like you’ve said. What a pity 🙁
“Oh no” is right. 🙁 Treasure your dark orange liquid. 🙁
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been changed, nor diluted. Color may vary from batch to batch, so much so that the juice is NOT colored, , and may also vary with age, maceration, maturation.Also, no chemichals such as UV filters are added.
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Thank you for coming here and sharing your position. I have updated the post to add your reply at the end as it is only fair.
But if there is no change at all, how you do explain a difference in scent on THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE? You’ve changed your Invasion Barbare, and I heard just yesterday from one of your retailers that your Ambre Topkapi and Peche Cardinal are different in scent now as well in their opinion. I tested the new bottle of Chypre Palatin side by side with both my own and my mother’s older ones, and I did the test a few times. The scent was NOT the same. And, again, the differences did not occur only on me, and they seemed apparent to others who smelled the fragrances in side-by-side tests on us as well.
Ambre Topkapi , nor Péché Cardinal have ever been modified either..Perception vary., People’s testimonies vary,and wildly so, and are are just ( perfectly legitimate) opinions.
Fragrance, not unlike wine, is one of the most subjective fileds and what three people can say, in perfectly good faith is just that: opinions.
Facts are different, they are what they are:in the present case these formulas have NOT been altered, nor the juices watered down ( which would be stupid).
Our formulas meet IFRA’s demands, Why would one do that when there is no obligation?
I understand that you’re upset and I can emphasize, but I did not post out of malice and I did not do so carelessly. My opinion was not based on the colour change. It was a good faith opinion based on the scent (not the colour) after testing it side by side. The same opinion or conclusion was — and continues to be — held by a woman who has worn your fragrance every week for 3 years now, sometimes for days in a row, and through two prior bottles before purchasing this third one.
None of us formed our opinions out of malice. You’re talking about intense fans of your fragrance. I have raved about your Chypre Palatin frequently on this site. But this new bottle smelled different in 3 people’s opinion. Three people who are not critics of your house or your fragrance, nor acted with malice to try to injure you. We have been fans of your fragrance and we backed it up by spending money to buy it. To us, it simply does not smell the same. My mother’s two prior bottles did, mine did — they’re all the same. Those all have the same smell. This one suddenly does not to our noses and on our skin. Nor to people who have smelled it on us.
You have stated your response, you have said there is no change, and I have updated the post to include all your replies including the detailed French comment by your lab. I’m not going to change my opinion and nor is the woman who has worn your fragrance weekly for the last 3 years. I’m afraid we’re at an impasse here.
The pity here is that the topic, IFRA and the progressive loss of precious ingredients, is very real, with at risk, a tremendous impact on the fragrances our children may have to make do with or endure one day.
Big and small brands, every single lab are facing dauting obstacles and working hard to find alternatives, and “replacement” molecules may simply not exist.
Compare today’s “classics” ( no names here…) and countless others to their modern versions, it is day and night. for fragrance lovers, it is a heartbreak or even a disaster in the making.
So yes the topic is serious, the fight very real,
So why not target fragrances that have indeed been (badly? cheaply?) reformulated, instead of the beautiful “Chypre Palatin” and other untouched jewels of this small brand?
How come before writing such an incriminating and dammaging article, and posting it on the web, the author did not even take the pain to ask what could explain the changes in colour in “Chypre Palatin”?
Why draw such conclusions and create such reactions in the public?
Does having “subjective and personal” views mean it is OK to write anything and not bother with the consequences?
Changing a formula is not something we take lightly, and to illustrate this, I have refused to bring back to life one of our favorite fragrances, “Enlèvement au Sérail”, because the attempts to reformulate it were not satisfactory, and still are n’t. Rather lose clients and $$$ than a reputation built bottle after bottle, year after year.
As for “Chypre Palatin”, the formula has never, ever been modified, nor has the concentration. The juice has been in the past coloured, but it is no longer the case, we prefer to leave the juice as free as possible of unnecessary ingredients, such as UV filters.
Herebelow is the confirmation by Art et Parfum, the lab that produces for us: I would really appreciate if it could be posted in on your Blog, as well as my reply. It is in French, but enough readers will understand it as is.
Thank you,
Claude
Claude Marchal
Parfums MDCI
Bonjour Claude
Pour faire suite à notre échange sur le Chypre Palatin, les deux dernières fabrications datent de 2015 et 2016, nous sommes en 2017.
D’un point de vue analytique et chromatographique, les deux productions sont totalement identiques .
D’un point de vue olfactif, nous constatons un écart naturel dû à une année de macération en plus, phénomène qui doit être accentué dans l’alcool, notre analyse ne portant que sur les concentrés en pur et les solutions alcooliques faites ce jour.
D’un point de vue de la coloration, ce parfum contient beaucoup de matières naturelles, ce qui en fait sa richesse, telles que du patchouli, benjoin , santal , lavande, jasmin , rose , girofle, pour ne citer que celles-ci, mais aussi plus de 10 % de notes hespéridé, mandarine, clémentine, citron ….
Ces matières premières issues d’agrumes sont colorées à l’origine et se décolorent dans le temps pour devenir transparentes en vieillissant.
Certaines sociétés essayent de stabiliser la couleur avec des complexes de filtres UV type covabsorb.
Vous avez pris le parti sur ce parfum de ne pas ajouter d’additif cosmétique.
Aux vues des matières premières présentes dans ce parfum, les agrumes se décolorant, il est donc normal qu’il devienne plus clair dans le temps.
Sur d’autres parfums la couleur peut au contraire foncer à cause de la vanilline, de l’indol ou autres matières premières.
Ce que je peux vous garantir c’est que cette formule est conforme par les constituants à la formule d’origine de Monsieur Duchaufour et que nous n’avons effectué aucun changement pour quelque raison que ce soit.
De plus, lorsqu’un de nos parfumeurs effectue une modification à partir d’un concentré existant et vendu, que ce soit pour des raisons réglementaires ou tarifaires, cela pouvant engendrer, ou non, une modification olfactive, le client final et metteur sur le marché en est systématiquement informé, une nouvelle référence est créée, et doit être validée par lui avant toute production.
Je reste à votre disposition pour toutes informations complémentaires,
Sincères salutations
Olivier MAURE
1650 Route de Saint Vallier
06530 SPERACEDES
Phone +33 493 605 252
o.maure@accordsetparfums.fr
http://www.artdecomposerleparfum.com
It is not merely the change in colour which informed my opinion. It was the change in scent. Three different people thought the new bottle smelled differently. I tested it side by side next to the old bottles. The woman who has worn Chypre Palatin every week for 3 years now thought that her perfume was different, had changed, and was weaker.
So, to repeat, the fragrance now smells differently in our opinions. It’s not merely a colour issue. It’s a scent one. And it’s not merely my opinion, either.
I have already added an update to my post which quoted your comment and position. Per your request, I will add another one which quotes you again in full with this latest statement of yours.
I had the pleasure to correspond with Claude and found him to be a very pleasant and honest man.
I have no reason to doubt him.
What he says about changes due to ageing, and storage, I know to be true. Before storing my bottles in a modified electronic wine cooler and over time, my perfumes would change in both colours and scent spectrum. I have now been storing my perfumes at a constant 12C and in complete darkens for 3 years and the problem has disappeared. I can’t comment on what 2017 CP smells or looks like as my two bottles were purchased back in 2014. But, I opened my backup bottle and compared it with the one I’ve been using for the last 3 years. This bottle is nearly finish but they are both identical in smell and colour profile. I hope that helps.
Dear Kafkaesque,
Please allow me to thank you for posting my answers, this is a fair debate, and it could have been otherwise.
At this point,there is litlte I can add : some have firm opinions, or beliefs, reality can be and is commonly perceived differently, I can only camp on my own position, based on facts.
If you and other persons are convinced that our fragrances have “changed”, there is little or nothing I can do.
I can only say (and sware!) that that they have not been altered, and that what left our premisses was and is 100% conform to the original formulas.
Color may vary from batch to batch, and fragrances can change according to duration of maceration or maturation, or storage condition and age.
The rest is purely in the eyes ( or nostrils) of the beholder, that we must always respect, and I think we have always done just that. .
Wow, that is sad. Chypre Palatin was not a favorite of mine, but it was very well done and I know it was well loved. I have found a couple of things that seem much ‘lighter’ in every way then their original formulations. My condolences. 🙁
Thank you. It’s always such a source of frustration. Someone just told me on the blog’s FB page that Profumum’s Ambra Aurea has been reformulated. Last year. They could tell first by the colour change, then by the scent itself. So, that’s two great fragrances which are now a shadow of their former selves.
It made me think of what Luca Turin & Tania Sanchez wrote in their book: if you love something, buy a back-up bottle because it won’t stay that way. Obviously, that’s not easy when a fragrance costs a lot, but it’s still good advice.
Ambra Aurea?! FML.
THAT made me choke on my drink. 😀 😀 But, yes, unfortunately, it seems to be true. I am working on a follow-up post on other reformulations, including a number of Profumum ones, based on the comments, insight, opinions, and inside company knowledge (e.g, for Profumum) of the long-time manager at Osswald NYC, Josie.
I will look forward to that post. Me, my tears, and a giant glass of whiskey.
Great advice. Wish I had thought of this years ago
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been changed, nor diluted. Color may vary from batch to batch, so much so that the juice is NOT colored, and may also vary with age, maceration, maturation.Also, no chemichals such as UV filters are added.
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Oh no. CP was on my must sniff list. I’m certain that the addition of ISO E is a deal breaker for me. Bummer
I completely and totally relate to your ISO E feelings! I had a pounding migraine for hours. My old bottle of Chypre Palatin never did that.
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been changed, nor diluted. Color may vary from batch to batch, so much so that the juice is NOT colored, and may also vary with age, maceration, maturation.Also, no chemichals such as UV filters are added.
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Good news is I just checked my decant and the liquid is in fact the old dark/orange. Bad news…is just a decant with a mere 8mls left in it. Sad to hear but thank you for the heads up. I’m going to stop into my local parfumerie today and see of by chance they still have the pre-formulation.
First, welcome to the blog, Brett. Second, good luck on your hunt. I hope you find an old bottle.
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been changed, nor diluted. Color may vary from batch to batch, so much so that the juice is NOT colored, and may also vary with age, maceration, maturation.Also, no chemichals such as UV filters are added.
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Am wearing Chypre Palatin today. Coïncidence. And NOOOOOOOO. Mine is the dark orange. Purchased a while back. And big fat NOOOOOO to ambra aurea as well. Thank heavens I have a FB of that too. Although some leaked in my last move. Guess they’re now promoted to “special occasion” scents. I’m glad I know of the changes because it would suck to buy and then find out. At those prices. Thank your mother for warning us.
Definite coincidence. And I understand the “promotion” to special status very well. Dilution or reformulation always brings out the hoarder in me of the old/older bottles. My mother, too. She’s saving her 2015 bottle of Chypre Palatin for special occasions, like you. We can all hoard together. lol
I still cling to Opium for special occasions. LOL,my only excursion to Richard’s holiday party.
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been changed, nor diluted. Color may vary from batch to batch, so much so that the juice is NOT colored, and may also vary with age, maceration, maturation.Also, no chemichals such as UV filters are added.
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Oh I am sad to learn of this, but it is good to be aware of the reformulation, so thank you. I bought my bottle of Chypre Palatin directly from MDCI Parfums in September 2016. It is difficult to see on screen, but my bottle’s contents appear about mid-way between the colors of the bottles in your photographs, more orange than yellow. The batch number on my box is H 2102. Perhaps there was somehow variation within a batch, or an older bottle paired with a newer box label? There is no batch number on the bottle itself. Mine smells fantastic to me, I’m happy to say. I get plenty of mossiness and robust sillage, with no sharpness or prominent lavender. I will cherish and ration it carefully.
Have you heard of any Hiram Green reformulations? Hiram Green is my “desert island” house, so I’m considering stocking up once the outside temperatures cool.
Very interesting about your bottle but also a little confusing. Lol. I don’t know what to say. I’ll check if the H2102 is perhaps the company’s fragrance code. They have those listed on their website.
In terms of Hiram Green, no, I’ve heard nothing. 🙂
Yep, I just checked the company’s website and “H 2101” is the company’s code for Chypre Palatin in the 75 ml bottle without the statue top. So, a fragrance catalog number. My mistake. I had completely forgotten that the company did things with those codes and that the codes are how you order the scents directly from them. http://parfumsmdci.free.fr/index.php?language=en&page&id=82 I had thought it was a batch code. I corrected the caption about that, so thank you. I appreciate it.
Wrong.
H 2101 is for “Invasion Barbare”, “Chypre Palatin” is and has always been H 2102 or HR 2002 for the version with bust.
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been changed, nor diluted. Color may vary from batch to batch, so much so that the juice is NOT colored, , and may also vary with age, maceration, maturation.Also, no chemichals such as UV filters are added.
Claude
Parfums MDCI
How to say this?
How to fight a nasty , destructive rumor?
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been modified, changed, altered, diluted.
along the years, colour may have varied, so much so that we do not use chemicals such as UV filters.l
Colour will change with time, depending on storage , and the high content of natural ingredients in the formula is also a factor.
But NO, rest assured that the formula has not been changed…
:o)
Claude
Parfums MDCI
I have a 5 ml mini of Chypre Palatin that I purchased a couple of years ago. The juice is dark orange so I’ll use it sparingly on special occasions. I suppose back-ups are a necessity now when you find a perfume you love.
All these reformulations are a shame, but I’m really happy that you’ve been discovering new perfumes that you’re enjoying, even those that are outside of your comfort zone. You’re enthusiasm is infectious!
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been changed, nor diluted. Color may vary from batch to batch, so much so that the juice is NOT colored, , and may also vary with age, maceration, maturation.Also, no chemichals such as UV filters are added.
Claude
Parfums MDCI
With all the regulation of everything why we don’t know what’s in perfumes *and* the fact that companies can change them without notice is infuriating. I am very sorry for your mother.
I am so tired of watered down perfumes that sometimes I think I will just wear nothing but vintage Opium for the rest of my life, and when I run out of that I will just wear nothing. Recently I had a quest to find one new perfume that I really liked, and in one week I spent about $100 on samples without finding a single thing that I liked, and I can’t afford that. Fortunately I have a lot of vintage Opium, a bottle each of a number of other nice things, and a Jasmine essential oil that I love, so I need to recover from the idea that there is some dreamily beautiful perfume being created that will blow my socks off.
You would go nuts for the Ottoman Empire that I just reviewed, my dear. I really think you would.
How to say this?
How to fight a nasty , destructive rumor?
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been modified, changed, altered, diluted.
along the years, colour may have varied, so much so that we do not use chemicals such as UV filters.l
Colour will change with time, depending on storage , and the high content of natural ingredients in the formula is also a factor.
But NO, rest assured that the formula has not been changed…
:o)
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Are you kidding me?? I always feel happy to see a new post from you, but sadly not this time because of this piece of news. Now my day is ruined 🙁
It hurts to learn about this when Chypré Palatin is my all-time favourite fragrance. Luckily, I still have almost a full bottle of it. Although I bought it last year, I’m a relatively conservative wearer who wears only 2-3 sprays at a time. All the more reason to be more conservative now.
There’s a certain lady I know who feels *exactly* as you do…. 🙁 I’m sorry, Nazrul.
How to say this?
How to fight a nasty , destructive rumor?
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been modified, changed, altered, diluted.
along the years, colour may have varied, so much so that we do not use chemicals such as UV filters.l
Colour will change with time, depending on storage , and the high content of natural ingredients in the formula is also a factor.
But NO, rest assured that the formula has not been changed…
:o)
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Woeful indeed. I have never before seen such a striking colour difference in the same perfume product. It always seems strange to me that in this (supposed) new legal age of consumer protection, fragrance companies can get away with changing a product so fundamentally, whilst passing it off as the original product, under its original name – with no express warning or notification to the consumer. It does seem, at the very least, morally wrong.
Sorry to have to instist, but”Chypre Palatin” has NEVER been modified, ever…
What is morally wrong here is to accuse and spread false news and unsubstantiated rumors..
Reformulation/dilution is the bane of my life and the reason for me getting into perfume blogs in the first place!
I could not believe how my “wedding perfume” had been so drastically altered over the years and the company swore that nothing had been changed (I now know they all say this). I began to trawl the internet as I felt I couldn’t be wrong and was so happy to find from reading other people’s comments that I wasn’t going mad! That same company – Chanel – unbelievably began diluting Misia within a year of launching it (I suspect they bait the customers and once they’ve hooked them think they won’t notice when they start weakening the fragrance); of course now it has been changed even more with its recent re-launch.
Frederick Malle’s Iris Poudre has also been ruined: the lush, velvety creature I fell in love with is now a ghost of itself, but I suppose there is some honesty there as I have just realised that the percentage of alcohol is plainly printed on the label and my old bottle contained a significantly higher proportion of fragrance than the new one. That’s all very well – but it doesn’t alter the fact that they have made it a different and weaker perfume and not one I wish to wear any more
How to say this?
How to fight a nasty , destructive rumor?
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been modified, changed, altered, diluted.
along the years, colour may have varied, so much so that we do not use chemicals such as UV filters.l
Colour will change with time, depending on storage , and the high content of natural ingredients in the formula is also a factor.
But NO, rest assured that the formula has not been changed…
:o)
Claude
Parfums MDCI
I asked here and there among my friends about the colour of their bottles, and someone say it’s dark orange like your old ones from the first moment they bought them, but one in particular tells he had bought a bottle of Chypre some years ago and it was light coloured, now he bought it again last year and the colour of yhe new bottle was dark, so that he sold it because it was too strong and no more balanced. Now, it’s not possible he bought the new version before the old one, because he bought it for the first time many years ago… otherwise, I think you are expert and skilled enough to make the difference between a reformulation and an oxydation! Also,I think it would be useless to ask directly to MDCI…So maybe we should value both the hypotesis, a reformulation and an oxydation? I’m so curious, if we come to a solution I will tell you what’s happened with our bottles 🙂
How to say this?
How to fight a nasty , destructive rumor?
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been modified, changed, altered, diluted.
along the years, colour may have varied, so much so that we do not use chemicals such as UV filters.l
Colour will change with time, depending on storage , and the high content of natural ingredients in the formula is also a factor.
But NO, rest assured that the formula has not been changed…
:o)
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Dear K, I am sorry to read this and I assume it indicates a trend (which I am afraid is occurring in many ways in many things and institutions) but it is a shame that a house such as MDCI is not keeping its standards high.
Maybe this is why I am increasingly leaning towards ‘natural’ and essential oil based perfumery/attars, Violette Noyée is at the moment one of my best loved scents and I wear a lot of April Aromatics (Purple Reign has a wonderful lilac like Violette). I hope you can assist your mother in finding a reliable replacement for her Chypre Palatin, I think not many people will understand that a reformulation like that will feel almost like a betrayal (thinking of Tania Sanchez’s description of perfume being like intelligent company if I remember rightly) and that must be hard for your mother. I hope she will find new company!
How to say this?
How to fight a nasty , destructive rumor?
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been modified, changed, altered, diluted.
along the years, colour may have varied, so much so that we do not use chemicals such as UV filters.l
Colour will change with time, depending on storage , and the high content of natural ingredients in the formula is also a factor.
But NO, rest assured that the formula has not been changed…
:o)
Claude
Parfums MDCI
So many fragrances have been diluted and the excuse ( rightly or not ) is IFRA. Amouage Gold man 2011) was my absolute favorite but the newer version lacks the opulence and the sheer power.
Is that really when they changed it? 2011? I’ve been wondering. I’ve experienced this difference as well. Sampled it last year through Luckyscent, and it wasn’t impressed. Then, I recently bought a cheap bottle of Gold Man, with a friction cap and no “Amouage” text on the front (was this ever a ‘thing’?). World’s difference. The old formula is much different smelling, and rich as hell. Exotic 5-star hotel floral/amber soap vs thin, wimpy civet juice. Very disconcerting. I don’t know where I’ll find this particular version again. I’m certain it’s been through at least a few, since the 80’s…
I can’t describe just how much I loathe the Nanny State. Down with IFRA.
-M
I got my small sample from Lucky Scent just this year-around May. Does that mean I have the old, good version or the newer?
Oh dear, how dispiriting!
Like Holly’s, my own bottle, acquired late 2015/early 2016, is between the two in terms of colour: not dark orange, but certainly not yellow either. I appreciate the composition and admire the quality but find Chypre Palatin hard to wear, for some reason.
Hiow to say this?
How to fight a nasty , destructive rumor?
Chypre Palatin has never, ever been modified, changed, altered, diluted.
along the years, colour may have varied, so much so that we do not use chemicals such as UV filters.l
Colour will change with time, depending on storage , and the high content of natural ingredients in the formula is also a factor.
But NO, rest assured that the formula has not been changed…
:o)
Claude
Parfums MDCI
Oh no, not Ambra Aurea as well. I had just saved up to buy a full bottle. Why do they do this, why change a beautiful fragrances for the worse ? Why change them at all? It’s so sad.
My Chypre Palatin was ordered in March 2016. I previously sampled it ,from Osswald’s , along with some from Profumum in later February 2016. The sample and bottle I received were the dark orange . I did buy Ambra Auera in May of 2016. I believe right around that time, or a little after , Profumum Roma was coming out with their 18 ml bottles , of which I has happy they did, at least at that time. I bought a few, Vanitas and what not . Then I bought their Patchouly from Osswald’s in the big bottle. I believe that was in June. I was hoping Osswald’s was going to carry them the 18 ml’s. They didn’t, so I picked them up the 18 ml’s from LuckyScent . I am wondering if that’s when some of the change over , in regards to PR’s, happened. I haven’t ordered sample from Osswald’s in a little bit . I was just getting ready to, now when I do, I’ll make sure I sample MDCI’s Chypre Palatin.
BTW, I did order the 50 ml of Ottoman Empire , and the 5 ml of Siberian Musk is on it’s way as we speak. I got the 5 ml for $35, plus $5 in shipping .How cool is that. When I have received all of them, I’ll come back to reply to your question .
Have a great weekend ahead Kafkaesque.
Your fragrance friend ,
Eddie.
I’m so sorry Kafka :(.
I never really enjoyed CP, but I did experience the same thing with another favorite, albeit not to that extreme; Nuit Noire from Mona di Orio. It smells almost the same but it went lighter with the relaunch. So I know how you feel. And don’t get me started on vintages any time I decide to smell the current version just for fun, because it sends me on a panic attack shopping spree on eBay.
Also, I really enjoyed your review of Areej el Doré, but came late to the party, hopefully I won’t miss the relaunched update!!
Take care my dear 😉
xx
This is terrible news indeed, since Chypre Palatin was on my buy list, right after my acquisition of a 2008 bottle of Amouage Ubar in the original bottle design and a 2011 Lyric Woman. Although frankly I was considering bumping it down to right after Mendittorosa’s Le Mat. Now…. I will have to be careful….. very careful indeed.
Dear Kafkaesque and all-
What a thought-provoking debate has unfolded here! I’m so sorry that your dear mother cannot enjoy her favorite perfume any longer. Ah well, it’s an opportunity to find a new love. I’ve never tried Chypre Palatin but it seems that vintage Dioressence (which I adore in both the vintage EDT and vintage parfum) might be a suitable replacement?
Can we ever find a rational way to discuss reformulation? I am devoted to my vintage perfumes, so this is a very familiar (and always contentious) topic. Yes, perceptions of perfumes are subjective but they are not completely subjective or irrational. Given that someone who has worn a perfume consistently for years and years is already predisposed to like and enjoy her new bottle, it’s very hard to explain why she would be disappointed in it without having a good reason.
I would love to ask Mr. Marchal if he has retained sample bottles of Chypre Palatin from 2013 and successive years and if he has directly compared the current juice to the perfume in the older bottles? Because his dedicated consumers are doing just this kind of side-by-side testing, comparing their treasured perfume in their older bottles to the contents of the newer, and it is this fairly rigorous and objective test that is informing their assessments.
The color, the information on the box, the number codes–these are all incidental matters–the experience of the scent is the only essential issue here. The basic formula may have remained the same, but perhaps the intensity, quality, or provenance of the ingredients may have changed? And perfumes do not generally become stronger or gain depth with age and storage, in my experience.
On another topic, I received my sample vial of Siberian Musk the other day, and I am enjoying it very much, My DH (who does not like to wear perfume himself but is becoming rather knowledgeable, through unavoidable secondhand exposure) took one sniff and said, “It smells like one of your vintages.” Miss Dior or Bal a Versailles parfum, perhaps?
I have a bottle of Chypre Palatin from 2016 and it contains the yellowish juice. I have an older decant with the orangish juice. To my unsophisticated nose, they smell very similar and dare I say, the same? In any case, I also want to mention that my bottle of L’Artisan Parfumeur Seville a l’Aube turned from light orange to a darker, deeper orange and it smells just like it was when I first opened it. I am wondering if BD uses ingredients that tend to change color over time?
Thank you hajusuuri,
Thank you for not surrendering to rumors and subjectivity, .
No, have we changed the formula,100% compliant with IFRA,
Why would we???!!!!
How can we defend ourselves against such calamitous rumor? What’s next?,
Thank you for your support,
Claude
Yes, but every perfumer does….
Natural ingredients in particular do change color over time, and as far as we are concerned, we do not add synthetic UV “filters”, having made the choice not to color “Chypre Palatin” as the “juice is naturally dark enough.,
It may have been touched on above, but after some discussion with fellow perfumistas (a couple of whom work in retail and know CP well) it occurred to us that, while the formula has not been altered, that the quality of one (“vanilla”, anyone?) or more of the naturals have changed a bit due to weather / harvest conditions etc. Just a hunch. When Wasser realised that one ingredient in L’Heure Bleue & Mitsouko was ‘off’ a year or two ago, Guerlain pulled them until he could find a substitute. I have great respect for both Kafkaesque and Claude Marchal and only offer this as a possible reason for the shift in dynamics within the composition. Peace 🙂
What Claude has been vehemently saying is formula is the same. What he has not said is that smell is the same.
Also attacking this blogger makes no sense. Has turned me off a bit from MDCI.
The blogger merely said the scent smells different.
I think Morton Wilson may have a point. You use same formula but maybe the ingredient have changed. Vanilla extract (or whatever you use) is not the same as it was 5 years ago.
You and Morton Wilson make good points, epapsiou. Even if the formula is the same, the difference in color between bottles signals a chemical difference between batches, and then the scent is significantly different to at least three people. This is valuable information that Kafkaesque has brought us, and I hope that M. Marchal takes this as an opportunity to look into the details of what has been happening with different batches. It would be wonderful for those of us who love Chypre Palatin to continue to enjoy it in its full glory.
My, that escalated quickly.
I feel like epapsiou’s point is very, very important. Formula is not the same as scent. I lived for years in Washington’s up and coming wine country, and it is no joke to say that what the same vines produce from year to year can taste wildly different. So I am inclined to hope that what has occurred is due to ingredient sourcing rather than ingredient changes. I’ve heard rumblings of several discontinuations recently due to sourcing/quality issues, and in a year where much of my country is up in flames or drowning in floods, I can imagine how much of an impact even “small” events can have on things whose purpose is to create scent.
But I think the larger and more disturbing point that this instance highlights is why we all readily believe that any change in scent means a change in formula: Because it happens all the time and no company EVER wants to be open about it. Nor are they required to be. While Chanel, Guerlain and Dior have been fairly frank about the fact that it happens, it’s not like they make it easy to spot the difference occurring. A company can–and too many do–sell a very different product under the same name without notifying anyone of changes. And while die-hard enthusiasts will bemoan, most will never know the difference. If I were to buy Ambra Aurea (Cough–or Amouage–cough) now, and then read your article on it, my assumption would be that it was for the same product, and my nose was wrong or untrained. But it could very well be a different product.
When people ask for Lutens recommendations, I’ve started telling them to get verification of the bottle purchase dates from their sampling or retail sites, because what I have and what they might get increasingly seem likely to be different. Same name; new juice; no explanation.
It colours our assumptions about why fragrances change, and I can see how that might hurt the heart of someone who spent years creating a masterpiece and flagship for his brand, but the change can’t come from consumers, or bloggers. We expect fire because we have been burned. Any change to that must come from brands owning up to their decisions, and a choice of clarity over mystery, honesty over hyperbole. And sadly, that seems pretty unlikely.
The issue with Ambra Aurea being reformulated is very old news (as well as other Profumums reformulations). There’s a Basenotes thread about it from 2014.
I get an almost a bubble-gummy lavender accord from this newer, orange juice. That deep resinous nose feel is just simply gone. Very sad.
I’m genuinely sorry to hear that it’s not just us, our perception, or our bottle. I can’t explain it given what the company has said, but I’m sorry to hear it. (That said, I’m also feeling relieved to know it’s not just us. The lavender does seem heightened to me as well, in addition to the fragrance having much greater sweetness. All of us were unanimous on that last point. All of us.)
Has anyone noticed how sometimes the tassles & beads on bottles of Chypre Palatin are different? I just purchased a bottle of dark orange-red juice but the bead is white & the tassles are copper & white. I wonder what that’s about. Seller claimed he bought it 4 years ago.
Kafkaesque . Is cumin on IFRA’s chopping block next ? Just wondering .